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There should be a city ordinance
We are no longer able to put our trash out more than a few hours before disposal because there are swarms of people in trucks that go around and "steal" our trash. They may find a perceived value in our trash, but it's our trash and we don't want it viewed, rummaged or taken by strangers.
Most major cities consider this a crime.
Two times in the past 2 years we have purchased new appliances and put our old, but good, appliances curbside and promised them to other people. This was not on trash day. Both times our appliances were stolen off our lawn in the day time by unknown people in trucks before we could see them. There was no indication given either time that we were offering our property to anyone.
If we knew who stole our used appliances we would have them prosecuted for theft, but they drive by, load up, and they are gone within 15 minutes.
I do not want to have to monitor my trash cans. I do not want strangers or neighbors rummaging through my cans on trash day and taking my property. It is still my property, even in the trash can. I have the right to dictate that I want my property to go in a landfill.
Most of the license plates are from Franklin County.
How about some action on this issue by city hall? Please. It should be a crime.
Comments
showtime 1 year, 5 months ago
I would be mad too if appliances that were intended for others were stolen from my curb. That is wrong and should be stopped/punished.
But, as long as the scrappers/recyclers/scavengers are NOT leaving more of a mess than was already there why not reduce the amount of "trash" going to our landfills.
Should there be a "recycling" ordinance? I wonder what policies most major cities have concerning recycling.
mellowyellow 1 year, 5 months ago
Curbside is considered public right of way/property. If it's out there, it's for anyone.
notwhatyouthink 1 year, 5 months ago
So if I leave my car there it's ok for anyone to come take it? Your statement makes no legal sense.
BaldwinDad 1 year, 5 months ago
Yes, it does items left unattended on the curb is considered trash or abandoned.
A licensed registered & insured vehicle is not abandoned.
Try parking an unregistered vehicle there and see how fast till you get a ticket, towed and impounded.
notwhatyouthink 1 year, 5 months ago
Can you find the law that defines trash as items left unattended on the curb?
You can't, but there is a law against taking items that are lost or mislaid. That is why if you drop your cell phone (on the curb maybe) and someone takes it, it is called theft. Just like if you leave a washing machine or chair on your lawn by the street and someone takes it is theft.
Just so you know Baldwin didn't have an law agaist parking a car on the street with expired or no license plate until this month So untill it is published nothing will happen execpt that maybe you will come and take it assuming that I have abandon it.
hyperinflate 1 year, 5 months ago
While there likely isn't a "law that defines trash as items left unattended on the curb", any law that tries to define rummaging through trash as illegal would surely not stand based on the Supreme Court's decision in California v. Greenwood.
1776attorney 1 year, 5 months ago
mellowyellow. With all due respect, before you spout legalese, you should know your facts. Your trash IS your own property no matter where it is located. As your property, you have a legal right to forbid others from inspecting it or taking possession of it. The fact that you have it at the curb is your consent for Ottawa Sanitation (and only Ottawa Sanitation) to take possession of it.
Ottawa Sanitation assumes a fudiciary responsibility to deposit your property directly into a landfill.
Your trash is never out there for anyone to look through or to take. That is a crime, plain and simple. Just because it's rarely discovered or prosecuted, doesn't make it right or legal.
And people have the legal expetation and right to dictate what they want done with their property, regardless of the desires of dumpster divers.
TheOnlyGreyghost 1 year, 5 months ago
Geez, yeah--let's have an ordinance to restrict something that ordinarily works as a win-win for both the household and the scavenger--let's see if we can ruin that for everyone because Mr Attorney can't figure out how to gift something to a friend without having it taken by a stranger....
We've had several items over the years that we didn't need anymore but still had some life in them. Sitting them at the curb was our way to saying, "Take this with our blessings." Maybe it was something we didn't want to save for garage sale season... or an electronic device that needed work but would be a boon to someone who happened to have the knowhow to fix it... Maybe it's something a little shabby or beat up, but someone could repair it, shine it up, and either use it or sell it in a flea market.
Whatever the case, it's an unspoken rule that if you sit it at the curb, you're saying you have no further use of it. It's a signal that if it's not gone by trash day, you don't have any qualms about the sanitation department loading it up.
Most people are pretty decent. I strongly suspect that a stranger would have left the used appliances there if Mr. Attorney had had the common sense to put a note on them with his friend's name on it--and/or if he had left the appliances not on the curb but a little closer to the house, up the driveway a bit. I doubt someone was out "stealing" that day--they were simply trying to get some use out of what was (to most eyes used to widespread custom) of no further value to the homeowner.
Instead of accusing people of being thieves (dastardly Franklin County thieves, no less) and expecting useful customs to be halted to accommodate his lack of comprehension, Mr. Attorney should develop some awareness and place notes on items that are designated to be retrieved by a friend. And, for good measure, maybe he shouldn't place them on the curb.
As for "regular" trash, I guess his must be very special. I have yet to see swarms of Franklin Co. pickups going through ANYbody's bags of kitchen or household trash around town. Maybe I should feel insulted that the trash in my neighborhood is too lowly for the roving Ottawa scavengers to consider worth their while.
But if Mr. Attorney is concerned that someone might see his shredded office mail or worn out sex toys, all he has to do when throwing out sensitive trash is squirt some mustard, pancake syrup, or other sticky and visible substance on the bags after taking them to the curb. I don't think anyone would want to open and go through them if it meant getting crud all over their hands. (As for the trash collectors, they wear heavy gloves and have probably seen & touched everything, so they should be unfazed.)
Honestly, you can solve your own problems by using a little imagination, rather than demanding that the rest of us part with a custom that works just fine for most.
oldman 1 year, 5 months ago
I am with Grayghost. It's save me $5 buck not getting a sticker from the city for pick up.
Torch 1 year, 4 months ago
Says the person paying a $23 million school bond. LOL!
greyghost 1 year, 5 months ago
I'm with you oldman. $5 buck save is $5 buck earn. :( To hell with sticker.
BaldwinDad 1 year, 5 months ago
Seriously....this is your issue....wow...ok...not a problem with someone taking my trash off the side of the street.
If you intended the item for someone else then you should have put it closer to your house or made arraignments with the interested party to come get it at a set time when you would be there.
Also these are not thieves there are tons of people in Baldwin that use Freecycle online and a lot of those posts are, OFFER: used item left on curb/first come first serve. So the idea we need a law for something this frivolous is insane. Also we would never have a law against going through the trash since then the police would need a warrant to search it, they already don't need one to bug your car in your driveway, what makes you think they would want to limit themselves to your trash.
1776attorney 1 year, 5 months ago
BaldwinDad. Respectfully, I don't have to do anything specific with my belongings as you suggest. I can treat or place it however or wherever I want on my own property. I decide my own purpose and preference.
The burden is on the "thiefs", yes, thiefs, who steal private property off private property. It is not on the property owner to follow someone else's guidelines so "thiefs" won't do what thief's do- steal.
hyperinflate 1 year, 5 months ago
"Your trash is never out there for anyone to look through or to take. That is a crime, plain and simple."
Uh, just so everyone knows, the police look through garbage set at the curb if they so desire (in front of a suspected drug house, for example). If they find something they can take it into evidence. This is not considered illegal search or seizure, and they don't need a search warrant. Trash at the edge of the curb is considered abandoned and is considered within public view. No less than the Supreme Court has affirmed this.
C'mon, 1776. As an attorney you know this. Unless......
GruyereEmmentaler 1 year, 5 months ago
Wow, I thought 1776attorney's absurd statement was just going to stand. Glad you corrected it hyperinflate. How long does it take to Google "Is trash public property?". Interestingly the final "proof" is contained in 1776attorney's own title "There should be a city ordinance". There isn't and even if there were, it would have to be defended in court. What a useless waste of money. I have found that if I want to get keep something curb-side, it helps to put a BIG SIGN with words like "FREE" or "PRIVATE PROPERTY - NOT FOR DISPOSAL".
Nathaniel Johnson gruyere.emmentaler@gmail.com
hyperinflate 1 year, 5 months ago
Maybe the use of the word "absurd" was prescient, Mr. Swiss Cheese. This could be how lawyers like to have fun -- make an absurd statement and watch the general ignorance of the populace as they debate "the law" as they understand it. Probably helps them feel better about the earnings they can expect in the upcoming year.
formerfarmer 1 year, 4 months ago
If you are placing your trash on the curbside, that is not your property, it is city easement. The Supreme Court has ruled that property set on the curb has no expectation of privacy. Thus no search warrant needed if a cop wants to go through it. No law broken if anyone wants to go through it.
mellowyellow 1 year, 4 months ago
I think that'a basically what I said.....what do you think 1776attorney ? Does it sound better coming from formerfarmer ?
1776attorney 1 year, 4 months ago
formerfarmer..........respectfully, please stick to farming. (And it is a worthly profession)......not the amateur practice of law. You're flat out wrong.
Please cite some case law or legal rulings for your opinion. Vague comments about Supreme Court rulings (above) are not necessarily revelant. It depends on the actual facts of the case heard and what decision was rendered.
Your car is parked in the city right-of-way. How would you feel if I searched through it sometime? On a whim. Or maybe your dog accidently carries your tax files and credit card file out into the street? I could search it, but I'm sure you would prefer that I respect your privacy.
Property rights are not invalidated by their location or contents. What belongs to you, is yours, no matter where it is located. Your son's bike parked on school property is still your son's bike.
Interesting comments and discusion, but a considerable amount of wrong and misleading information.
mellowyellow 1 year, 4 months ago
I don't know why I should have to prove this....but here you go .... you put items at the curb there's no right to privacy.
The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the police may legally search, without a search warrant, trash or garbage that individuals put out for collection. California v. Greenwood, 486 U.S. 35 (1988).
1776attorney 1 year, 4 months ago
Thank you. However, that case was about the admissability of evidence in a trial collected from a defendent's trash outside his home. The court decided that the evidence was admissable at trial.
The case has nothing to do with property rights or scavengers rummabing through a person's garbage cans for personal benefit or theft.
Simplified, it was also about whether the police should have had a search warrant signed by a judge BEFORE doing their search. The Court decided they did not for various legal reasons.
I commend your research and I appreciate your commenting, however, as with many Supreme Court cases, the issues are usually about very narrow aspects of the law and constitutionality. The decisions are rarely about big, broad issues. Thiose are left to lower appeals courts.
Police searches and the right of a "garbage" owner are different issues.
Respectully....
hyperinflate 1 year, 4 months ago
1776,
I know you might not want to give away the "secret sauce" here, but the ruling by the Supreme Court is very much applicable to owner rights. I am not an attorney (and I no longer play one on television), but I am guessing I could present a pro se argument in defense of my actions if I were somehow brought up on charges of rifling through someone's trash at the edge of the curb. I would most definitely reason by analogy that the police are not operating on any different set of laws than I am if they don't require a search warrant to look through the trash.
Also, if you look at the underpinnings of the Greenwood ruling you'll see that the determination was made by the majority (albeit with strong dissent) that the trash was essentially being trusted into the hands of a complete stranger for disposal. And because there was no predetermination of who that person was to be, there was not a contractual or agent-based relationship with the trash hauler. Therefore, it would be no different than a scrapper who makes his/her living searching through publicly-available garbage to determine what is worthwhile to keep.
So while you are correct that the Supreme Court ruling was about a much narrower question, I would offer that it has far-reaching effects that would include possibility overturning a city law based on protecting the property rights of someone who placed refuse at the curb.
h
mellowyellow 1 year, 4 months ago
@ 1776, you are being too narrow minded to continue this banter. Perhaps with arcocelli's comments you can continue on.
@ arcocelli --- I wouldn't be too quick to blame Baker for this problem.
arcocelli 1 year, 4 months ago
I was joking- college students are an easy target! Though based on what was stolen out of our yard, I think college students would be a good guess. This was stuff that we just had out for decoration. I remember a few years ago, someone had their baby Jesus stolen from their yard display. This kind of stuff is harmless but annoying.
arcocelli 1 year, 4 months ago
I'm not surprised that people are doing this, we just had something else stolen from out in front of our house last night. For a small town, there's a lot of theft around here. I blame Baker. :-)
lny4evr 1 year, 4 months ago
if the truck loads up and is gone how the heck do you know the license plate is from franklin county? if you know the license plate wouldn't you know what they drive then? then you could ask the cops what you can do about it? some attorney you are (ITS IN THE DETAILS)
ursullamcfly 1 year, 2 months ago
Are you kidding me? Really????????? This much time, energy and pro bono legal advice over GARBAGE?
You people need a hobbie.
As long as they arent going through your bags where they could locate personal information... then WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MATTER if they take your old kitchen chairs or broken TV?
Good God in heaven.... do we really need to fire up city council, who rarely gets much accomplished anyway, and have them pass an ordinance to protect our GARBAGE!
Our schools don't even have a working policy against bullying.... But we need a LAW for GARBAGE?
Get a life!
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