I certainly will… I'm just questioning why other members of the volunteer fire department didn't feel it was their responsibility to show up for any council meeting prior to the decision? If there is someone that is supposed to present the questions in a formal meeting, like the one you said that you were “promised” to have, or could one attend a council meeting with concerns as a Baldwin Citizen?
“I work for a full time department, we have volunteers, we are treated the same regardless of our background. And you want to know the kicker, we have volunteer officers that I still have to answer to. They say jump I say how high.”
“I dissagree with you on a full time firefighter not being what we need, The council and the city have said that this is about money, we can't pay someone with expeirence that we need. Well lets lower the pay to around $30,000 and save $10,000 and higher a firefighter. I am a tax payer here too!!!” – Yet a full time Chief would have no respect because he wouldn't have enough experience??
Obviously it didn't work the first time we hired a full time firefighter, what makes you think it'd be any different?
“why start something off by putting all the eggs in the basket? They usually get broke when you fall.” –— Not exactly sure what you mean by this statement? Aren't the current Chief's “eggs all in one basket”?
You know… I never really had a problem with the fire department, didn't really even concern me till I read this article, I threw out my opinion and was countered with yours. Great!! THAT is what these message boards are for (sorry you think that these are “just entertainment” for those uneducated individuals on the outside that just don't understand). I don't agree with most of your arguments, that's just the world of politicking, you're not going to beat your beliefs into 100% of those that you engage in conversation with.
We'll just agree to disagree:
One question: why is it that you would have to “take off work”? Is there a majority that agrees with the above disputes? Why can't anyone else express their opinion regarding these issues? Just curious:
Why not take it to a meeting? Because if you have a strong belief in something, you should voice that opinion every opportunity you have! It's not the fault of the Council or the city administration that you were not there: that, Monkey, is on you and you alone.
A full time firefighter, in my opinion, would never work for this fire department. As sparky states, and I agree, he would always be receiving orders from two directions. You argue that he should be taking command from the Chief as opposed to taking orders from his employer. Doesn't really make any sense, does it? I mean, wouldn't an employee be following the proper chain of command if he goes through, seeks advice and takes his orders from his hiring manager? I don't know what you do full time Monkey, but I'm pretty confident that you report to you hiring manager.
I going to guess that my argument doesn't matter to you. I mean, if I have to “apply and join” just to express my opinion to a department that is supposed to protect my life, then who are you really segregating yourselves from? I think we should have a voice as the public: not as a member of your department. If you disagree, then just keep in mind where the money came from to buy all that equipment that the department uses.
You know, the day is going to come when a new Chief is going to have to step in. Whether it's due to a new full time Chief or someone stepping in to replace a Chief that has retired. You are going to have to face the fact that things change: and to think someone is going to come in and NOT take your safety into consideration is completely asinine. I get the feeling you're one of those people that feel “the man” is out to get you. If you're so worried about someone leading you into harms way, then quit.
Monkey… Your argument that “you've had no voice” doesn't hold water. You had every opportunity to voice concerns. That's what Kermit is talking about! You guys wait till AFTER the decision was made, and you blame your city council and city administration because you “have had no voice”? Doesn't that contradict your own argument? I mean, they are public meetings, they do have agenda's. I'm fairly certain you had an idea that they were going to be discussing this topic during the city council meetings. Shouldn't you have voiced your concerns before it passed?
So was the full time firefighter let go for insubordination or something? Did he quit? Just not sure what you're trying to insinuate and why you would even bring it up??
FLAS/wc2008… You both make very strong points in your posts… It's just so hard to decide what side to take!… sheesh
Monkey… fdny…? the Fire Department of New York City? The one that employs full time firefighters, who report to a fire chief hired by the city of New York, which the posting (I'm sure) had FAR more prerequisites than the one posted by Baldwin? Yes… They operate just fine. Apples and Oranges…
If by saying “we had nothing to worry about” and “things happening behind closed doors”, you mean that you assumed that Allen would be just given the job, then I don't think you have any understanding of the articles written by the US Department of Labor and the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission).
2 April 2008
at 4:04 p.m.
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Warhorse (Anonymous) says…
I certainly will… I'm just questioning why other members of the volunteer fire department didn't feel it was their responsibility to show up for any council meeting prior to the decision? If there is someone that is supposed to present the questions in a formal meeting, like the one you said that you were “promised” to have, or could one attend a council meeting with concerns as a Baldwin Citizen?
2 April 2008
at 3:40 p.m.
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Warhorse (Anonymous) says…
“I work for a full time department, we have volunteers, we are treated the same regardless of our background. And you want to know the kicker, we have volunteer officers that I still have to answer to. They say jump I say how high.”
“I dissagree with you on a full time firefighter not being what we need, The council and the city have said that this is about money, we can't pay someone with expeirence that we need. Well lets lower the pay to around $30,000 and save $10,000 and higher a firefighter. I am a tax payer here too!!!” – Yet a full time Chief would have no respect because he wouldn't have enough experience??
Obviously it didn't work the first time we hired a full time firefighter, what makes you think it'd be any different?
“why start something off by putting all the eggs in the basket? They usually get broke when you fall.” –— Not exactly sure what you mean by this statement? Aren't the current Chief's “eggs all in one basket”?
You know… I never really had a problem with the fire department, didn't really even concern me till I read this article, I threw out my opinion and was countered with yours. Great!! THAT is what these message boards are for (sorry you think that these are “just entertainment” for those uneducated individuals on the outside that just don't understand). I don't agree with most of your arguments, that's just the world of politicking, you're not going to beat your beliefs into 100% of those that you engage in conversation with.
We'll just agree to disagree:
One question: why is it that you would have to “take off work”? Is there a majority that agrees with the above disputes? Why can't anyone else express their opinion regarding these issues? Just curious:
2 April 2008
at 1:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
Permalink
Warhorse (Anonymous) says…
Why not take it to a meeting? Because if you have a strong belief in something, you should voice that opinion every opportunity you have! It's not the fault of the Council or the city administration that you were not there: that, Monkey, is on you and you alone.
A full time firefighter, in my opinion, would never work for this fire department. As sparky states, and I agree, he would always be receiving orders from two directions. You argue that he should be taking command from the Chief as opposed to taking orders from his employer. Doesn't really make any sense, does it? I mean, wouldn't an employee be following the proper chain of command if he goes through, seeks advice and takes his orders from his hiring manager? I don't know what you do full time Monkey, but I'm pretty confident that you report to you hiring manager.
I going to guess that my argument doesn't matter to you. I mean, if I have to “apply and join” just to express my opinion to a department that is supposed to protect my life, then who are you really segregating yourselves from? I think we should have a voice as the public: not as a member of your department. If you disagree, then just keep in mind where the money came from to buy all that equipment that the department uses.
You know, the day is going to come when a new Chief is going to have to step in. Whether it's due to a new full time Chief or someone stepping in to replace a Chief that has retired. You are going to have to face the fact that things change: and to think someone is going to come in and NOT take your safety into consideration is completely asinine. I get the feeling you're one of those people that feel “the man” is out to get you. If you're so worried about someone leading you into harms way, then quit.
1 April 2008
at 3:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
Permalink
Warhorse (Anonymous) says…
Monkey…
Your argument that “you've had no voice” doesn't hold water. You had every opportunity to voice concerns. That's what Kermit is talking about! You guys wait till AFTER the decision was made, and you blame your city council and city administration because you “have had no voice”? Doesn't that contradict your own argument? I mean, they are public meetings, they do have agenda's. I'm fairly certain you had an idea that they were going to be discussing this topic during the city council meetings. Shouldn't you have voiced your concerns before it passed?
So was the full time firefighter let go for insubordination or something? Did he quit? Just not sure what you're trying to insinuate and why you would even bring it up??
27 March 2008
at 4:29 p.m.
Suggest removal
Permalink
Warhorse (Anonymous) says…
FLAS/wc2008… You both make very strong points in your posts… It's just so hard to decide what side to take!… sheesh
Monkey… fdny…? the Fire Department of New York City? The one that employs full time firefighters, who report to a fire chief hired by the city of New York, which the posting (I'm sure) had FAR more prerequisites than the one posted by Baldwin? Yes… They operate just fine. Apples and Oranges…
If by saying “we had nothing to worry about” and “things happening behind closed doors”, you mean that you assumed that Allen would be just given the job, then I don't think you have any understanding of the articles written by the US Department of Labor and the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission).