Archive for Friday, November 12, 2010

School board listens to patrons at public hearing

Ed Kite was one of 25 Baldwin School District patrons who spoke at the board of education public hearing Thursday night in the Baldwin Junior High School auditorium.

Ed Kite was one of 25 Baldwin School District patrons who spoke at the board of education public hearing Thursday night in the Baldwin Junior High School auditorium.

November 12, 2010

More than two-dozen Baldwin School District patrons spoke to the board of education about the proposal to close the two rural elementary schools at Thursday night’s public hearing.

The highly-anticipated meeting drew a large crowd as expected, but only 25 people walked up to the front of the Baldwin Junior High School auditorium and spoke to the school board. Of the 25 people, 17 wanted the schools left open, six were in favor of the proposal and two were neutral.

Supt. Paul Dorathy opened the meeting by presenting information on state budget cuts and a possible savings if Marion Springs and Vinland elementary schools are closed. He also showed plans of how the students would fit into Baldwin Elementary School Intermediate Center and Baldwin Elementary School Intermediate Center.

Six of the first nine speakers were in favor of closing the proposal. Then 16 consecutive people stood up and opposed the proposal.

The school board didn’t discuss the proposal or vote on anything Thursday night.

For more on the hearing, pick up a copy of the Nov. 18 Signal.

Comments

BigCat 3 years, 10 months ago

As a small buisiness owner I would think that the Kite's (see photo) would leave this one alone. Why would you want to alienate some of your customer base?

Also, why can't we have a question and answer with the BOE? I have checked, and contrary to what the Board President says it is not illegal. I have checked with board members in other districts, a former state BOE member, and the Kansas Association of School Boards (of which Baldwin is a member). All said the same thing...not illegal.

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ksrush 3 years, 10 months ago

Per your first comment, I could and would not be able to give specific reasons as to why the Kites are so involved with the debate but there are a few lessons to be learned from their eaxmple.

1 Have the strength of charter to stand up for what you believe in

2 Dont let a dollar dictate who you are or what you believe in order to be popular

3 Stay true to your beliefs in spite of what others may say

This is part of what our kids should be taught on a regular basis

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sawman 3 years, 10 months ago

Let's also teach them to correctly spell the word "character" and to use apostrophes in contractions.

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true_bulldog 3 years, 10 months ago

Ouch. Too funny. But let's also be honest. The Kites have indeed put themselves out there. While part of me admires them for that, on the business side, it's suicide. Of course, in their business it's a dying industry anyway. What's to lose? I'm going down anyway.

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ksrush 3 years, 10 months ago

Dont forget the misspeelling of example. Thats what 2 hour of sleep gets ya

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Torch 3 years, 10 months ago

We should be teaching them to live within their means instead of spending their grandchildren's money like this town has.

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1776attorney 3 years, 10 months ago

I stand to be corrected since I was not at this Board faux public hearing, but are the superintendent and board members up on a damn throne ? Surely these people are not so arrogant and out of touch as to have a 5 foot high platform installed so as to make the citizens they serve crank their necks and speak "up to" the rulers? Who the hell are these people?

Sadly, the situation with this superintendent and BOE is reaching a crisis point where the public is going to demand private attorneys get involved, higher government officials investigate or a recall effort is initiated to remove these "rulers".

The superintendent and BOE should be so ashamed of their reputations of deception, manipulation and disregard for the public.

The "slam job" that was done in naming the new sports complex seems to be how this BOE operates; when a proposal is unpopular wait a few months until the public forgets, then slam it through a board meeting before the public can react. This same method appears to be what will happen with the rural school closings.

"Staging" a phony public hearing where the audience has to sign up beforehand to speak and speaking is limited to 5 minutes is anti-democratic. The superintendent and BOE serve at the pleasure of the voters and if the voters want to speak, then these officials can sit and listen until 5am the next morning if necessary.

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

Well said, as someone that was there that night I did think it was a little presumptuous of the BOE and the Administration to tell us how we were to handle ourselves. Then to sit above and tell us that they will not respond to questions makes it seems like the BOE has lost all touch with reality.

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true_bulldog 3 years, 10 months ago

Good Lord, 1776, there is so much BS in your post I don't know where to start. Well, that would be the throne you conjure up. This was at the old BJHS auditorium. That's the stage. Only makes sense that that's the way this was set up. There was not a 5-foot platform installed for them. Good grief, get a grip.

I am not going to address your other useless points. The bottom line is this school board is a good group of good people who have sacrificed a lot to try and help the district. This is an impossible job and I think the world of them for doing it. I sure wouldn't. They have an impossible decision to make on this and it's people like you that make it that way.

I don't agree with everything they've done, but I admire them for putting their necks out to make decisions for what's best for the district. That's not always popular and no matter which way they go with this decision, it won't be popular. But someone has to do it. I don't see you doing it. Heck, you weren't even at the meeting.

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Torch 3 years, 10 months ago

This was a setup from the start.

Very few people are going to stand up on this emotional issue in a small town and recommend closing the schools. It's political suicide. And that's what life in Baldwin is - a political adventure.

If the Board could put this to a vote for all of the district to do so privately the rural schools would be absolutely crushed. I believe the vast majority of people who pay taxes in this district are completely ready to close the schools. Most of them aren't as vocal because they are rightly afraid of being labeled. I've seen it before. People who oppose The District or The City ultimately pay. In fact...oftentimes their children are subjected to ridicule as well.

Just get ready to open your checkbooks people of Baldwin. The cost of living here is about to go up even more. The selfish rural minority is going to force you to pay for their convenience.

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Torch 3 years, 10 months ago

This was a setup from the start.

Very few people are going to stand up on this emotional issue in a small town and recommend closing the schools. It's political suicide. And that's what life in Baldwin is - a political adventure.

If the Board could put this to a vote for all of the district to do so privately the rural schools would be absolutely crushed. I believe the vast majority of people who pay taxes in this district are completely ready to close the schools. Most of them aren't as vocal because they are rightly afraid of being labeled. I've seen it before. People who oppose The District or The City ultimately pay. In fact...oftentimes their children are subjected to ridicule as well.

Just get ready to open your checkbooks people of Baldwin. The cost of living here is about to go up even more. The selfish rural minority is going to force you to pay for their convenience.

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true_bulldog 3 years, 10 months ago

The only thing worse than Torch is a double dose of Torch. People, and plenty of them, have been speaking out against the rural schools for months. Where have you missed that? Oh, I forgot, you're an idiot. You're an idiot. Ooops. Double dose there, too.

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

There is supposedly another meeting tonight at the old PC.

I would recommend all of those that have something more they would like to discuss show up.

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Julie Craig 3 years, 10 months ago

On the District Calendar, it mentions "Board Member Forum" tonight. What is this? Anyone know the format? Is is question and answer?

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1776attorney 3 years, 10 months ago

Perhaps someone could comment on how many Board members were present for this public hearing. It appears from the photo, that some didn't even bother to attend.

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Bloggerboo 3 years, 10 months ago

Six of the seven attended. The other had a funeral to attend, I believe.

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LAGNAFinaCJ 3 years, 10 months ago

1776, I think someone had a death in the family, from what I heard.....

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cntrygrl 3 years, 10 months ago

Heard that when the Vinland HIgh school was consolidated with the Baldwin High School that it was written there would always be a grade school there.

BOE and attorneys better look in the bowels of the Douglas County courthouse before closing Vinland.

Some people may have time to investigate this and really cause a stink

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Bloggerboo 3 years, 10 months ago

All these claims of "way back when, promises were made" hold absolutely zero water. At any time, if under significant financial duress, the board and the district can do whatever they feel is necessary to keep the district operating.

Would you all prefer we are simply forced to close ALL of the district schools? Maybe Vinland and MSES should secede from the district and form their own, especially if this "us before all others" attitude is so prevalent among their residents.

And you all wonder why this has turned in to an us against them, which so many of you lamented at the public hearing. It is because you fail to see the other side, at all. It appears completely selfish to expect this district to maintain two extra buildings when we don't have the funds to do it. Unfortunate as it is, financial decisions take precedence over educational ones, otherwise, there ceases to be a need for education without the money to support it.

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

Almost as Selfish as parents who expect others to pay for their kids play time and transportation to and from play time.

Bloggerboo will you stop, we all know you could careless about any kids other then your own, but then to sit here and point your selfish finger at others and accuse them of the things you do is hypocritical.

All the parents of kids who attend VES and MSE want is the best education for their kids. I personally do not support closing those schools simply because I don't support making cuts to basic education of grades K-5, at least not before we have eliminated all the extra expenditures from the budget first and since we have not I can not support cutting basic education first while leaving other programs in place that are not the core function of the schools.

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ksrush 3 years, 10 months ago

10% of the district population K - 5 in 2 schools vs 90% of the district population K - 12 whose selfish ?

It's a financial decision not emotional. Give me any FINANCIAL reason why VES and MES should stay open. This challenge has been put our before - any takers yet ? Key word for itchy fingers out there FINANCIAL

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

Once again your speaking from IGNORANCE, the savings is not from CLOSING THE SCHOOLS!!!

It's from laying off teachers which effects ALL THE KIDS in the K-5 system, which is about 50% of the entire student body.

Will you people who are too ignorant to realize that their is NO SAVINGS from closing the schools please sit down and shut up.

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ksrush 3 years, 10 months ago

Yes Einstein anyone with an ounce of common sence can figure out that if the schools close the teachers go too. Any other brilliant observations ? Didnt think so - sit down and shut up fool

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

SO with that single ounce you have then you realize that closing the schools will not save us any money.

This is about cutting education K-5, instead of cutting the budget in other areas.

Also to point out once again the savings will be immediately spent by the Administration so that savings is gone and when the state cuts the budgets next year we will be right back where we started from. Except our youngest kids are now getting a worse education then they were a year ago.

Why not direct your energy to demanding the Board and the Administration cut Extra Curricular activities first, before they cut Education.

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sparky 3 years, 10 months ago

I keep hearing this argument about 10% of the kids vs. at the expense of 90% of the kids. The last figures I heard was that this 10% of the kids were using 10% (or less) of the budget. Does that mean that this 10% kids is only worth spending 5% (or some other percentage) of the budget?

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10130 3 years, 10 months ago

Can we cut through the mush? IF YOU KEEP THE OUTLYING SCHOOLS OPEN, ALL OF US WILL PAY MORE TAXES, AND MORE EDUCATION PROGRAMS WILL BE CUT. Thats it. If you close the two schools, you still will have to pay more taxes, but you still might have programs for the kids to use. Do you know in other states, parents PAY to have their kid picked up by the school buses. Do you know in other states, parents pay out the wazoo to have their kids play sports. Some parents pay $100.00 plus uniform costs to let their kid play. Let alone pay for the insurance for their kid if they get injured. You could be paying for all the things you get for free. If you don't like it, you can vote to dissolve the district and we would be taken over by another larger district. Then you all will be very happy. You know there are openings for new board members coming up. I am sure one of Baldwin's outspoken people will take up the torch and become a board member. After all, who doesn't like to be abused and called stupid? I am applying myself to become a board member. You should be! www.kasb.org If you open that link, what do you see? Oh my! The state of Kansas is going to cut state aid to school districts. Ladies and Gentlemen, open your wallets and purses!

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

I hope you wise up before you run for School Board because your not making any sense right now.

I don't know how many times we have to cover this but there is NO SAVINGS from closing the rural schools. The Administration is simply cutting the education budget of K-5 grades in order to fund raises and other non-essential programs. Then in 2011 when the budget cuts happen we will still be short of funds with overcrowded classrooms in grades K-5. The issue here is the MOST important time in the educational development of children is K-5, not in HS or JHS, so if you want to cut programs start there.

An yes, parents should have to pay $100+ for their kids to play ANY sports, since sports are not the core function of the schools. As it is we WASTE of almost $30k a year on watering the sports fields at the HS now, that is almost enough to hire a teacher wasted on watering the Athletic fields, ridiculous.

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true_bulldog 3 years, 10 months ago

BaldwinDad I appreciate your passion for this issue. What makes me wince is your absolute murdering of the English language while you do it. Did you have any education? Was it from the Baldwin School District? Your use of your instead of you're is just one of many examples. It doesn't help your case.

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Bloggerboo 3 years, 10 months ago

Oh, good Lord. Your statements betray your lack of knowledge, on maybe any subject, let alone this one.

For starters, "savings" is a term used loosely here. No one expects it to be put away in some safety deposit box from now until eternity because we can't afford to do that. It would be re-routed to different areas that apparently the board thinks are more important. Not to mention, it is a "savings" every year. For each year that we keep MSES and VES open, some amount of money is spent towards their existence. Why no one believes the district or the fact finding group on the actual amount, I have no idea. But, whatever that amount is, we spend it every year. For 150 kids or so.

Next, you make it sound like we won't be doing any teaching K-5 and those kids will be left to flounder without any education whatsoever. Such exaggeration is really only done because you have no other means by which to convince the board that those schools remain open. For instance, assuming their (K-5) education would remain at a very high standard, say like, the school they end up in still reaching the state Standards of Excellence, will you still be so concerned? Because, really, it sounds like most of those parents complaining just like the convenience, and want to continue to leech funds out of this district for that purpose. I assure you, your children will receive just as fine an education in Baldwin as they will outside of Baldwin. Consider the fact that the BESIC was the highest scoring school in our district this year with regards to the 2010 tests, garnering eight awards. MSES was second with six awards, and VES with three. So stop playing this broken record of our students will be illiterate if they have to go to Baldwin schools.

Finally, your understanding, or lack thereof, with regards to the value of sports is just jaw-dropping. So, you want to cut most sports apparently? If you don't water fields, there goes practice and most games for football, soccer, softball, and baseball. If you ever participated in athletics in a meaningful way, you would understand the value that sports brings to our student-athletes.

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sparky 3 years, 10 months ago

And what percentage of the district is going to use these practice football fields, soccer fields, baseball fields,...? So I guess the 75% (+/-) of the students who are not going to use these are supposed to not give a hoot about funding these?

I agree that the decision should be financially based. The last time I checked, sports were listed as "extra curricular," not mandatory. It would make sense to me that if its not mandatory, then let them pay for it themselves. If your child is in band, do they have to own their own instruments? Yes, or at least rent one from the school? Why not let the athletics programs support themselves? I know this is the unpopular thing to do, but to me sounds more logical.

Once the schools are closed, and a year from now we're still in the same boat, I hope everyone is on board with this idea because that will be one of the only areas left to cut, however unpopular it may be.

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Chicramblings 3 years, 10 months ago

I am not an advocate for closing or not closing VES/MES, but here is my two cents on the issue. (Disclaimer: please note that I don't address what is "fair allocation" of funds or who "deserves" what. I believe you make a sound financial decision first, then allocate the proverbial "pie" second.) With the short-term economic issues before the District, the financial impact of closing the two looks good even though I believe our Superintendent has overstated the savings. However, a good financial decision is not based on the short-term alone; one has to look at the future consequences of the decision. The District has not publicly presented it's mid to long term plan, but here is a go at it with the District's numbers.

Assuming a 2% growth rate (which appears to be reasonable based on past history of the district), the K-5 population will exceed the maximum capacity of the PC and IC in 5 years. If you care to use the District's poorly planned savings numbers (and I will multiply correctly now), the savings to date in 2015-16 for closing the two schools will be $2 million dollars. The estimates from our Superintendent to add a pod onto the PC is $1.7million dollars and he does not know exactly what it would cost to add onto the IC - extending an end with 4 classrooms probably $1.5m.

So with some basic financial planning, for this to be a good financial decision, the "savings" should outweigh the future costs. So, in 5 years, the consolidation will "save" the District what? Well, if we expand both schools, it will actually cost us. If we just expand one school, we will have a maximum savings of $300k -$500k. Some believe reopening one closed building is an option. The savings would be dependent on the exact state of the buildings after 5 years of abandonment. I further discount this option due to history of small towns across the Midwest. Once a school is closed, it is closed.

Also note if the District decides to spend or reallocate the savings from closing the two elementary schools, then this decision, again, will cost the District as it will have to come up with the funds to expand facilities. There are times and financial reasons, to sacrifice the long-term for the short-term; this maybe one of those. If it is, let's just put the options and impacts on the table truthfully for the taxpayers.

Many of you think this view is incorrect; however, one of the problems with the District's financial scenario is that it hasn't viewed the longer term impact of decisions. Some of you think that this simplistic financial model doesn't apply here, but that too is part of the problem and why debt and interest costs are 16.2% of the total budget of the District. Closing two schools may end up being one of the short-term cuts that have to be made for economic reasons, but due to its longer term implications, I would try all other measures that are easier to "put back" - options that don't require dirt and mortar.

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Bloggerboo 3 years, 10 months ago

The assumption of growth is not supported by anything. Not the research done in 2008, not the current enrollments, not any subsequent information that is available. If we don't grow at all in K-5, what does that do to your model?

However, I suppose part of this may be a crap shoot, because growth could never come, or it may happen all at once. The point is, we must have a budget that works for this year and next, regardless of the next five, if want to educate any of the children currently enrolled.

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LAGNAFinaCJ 3 years, 10 months ago

to let you know Blogger. Just this year, there are 4 new kids in the 3rd-5th grades classes my daughters at VES are in. I realize there is NO WAY for us to look into the future to let us know the growth in our schools over the next few years. But it would be VERY STUPID to put ourselves in another bad situation of overcrowded schools.

Dan Wilcox.

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Bloggerboo 3 years, 10 months ago

Four new kids across three grades in a single building does not an argument make. You must look year to year at overall numbers, since we are talking about growth for the entire buildings and district as a whole.

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Chicramblings 3 years, 10 months ago

Bloggerboo, your points about enrollment growth assumptions can be applied to all assumptions utilized in the model including the validity of the $400,000 "savings" this will bring to the District each year. Obviously changing each assumption results in different answers and views. The best thing to do is to establish a "base" set of assumptions and then actually run the model through various scenarios to see if the decision is palatable in both the best-case and worst-case scenario.

I did try to make it realistic by looking at the Enrollment Projections and Enrollment information in the Fact Finding Report to come up with a starting point of 2%. I could easily make a case for it being 1% or as high as 2.85%. Heck, we could even go negative which is interesting.

As I stated previously, sometimes decisions must be made for the short-term at the detriment to the long-term. This maybe one of those times; however, the District should speak plainly to its taxpayers about the potential long-term impact. The District provided a road map to "potential" future budget cuts. Let's do the same with this decision - provide a plan that addresses now and later. Plain and honest communication may actually help to unite everyone. It certainly can't hurt the situation.

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Bloggerboo 3 years, 10 months ago

I agree with most of what you say here, Chic. So, really, your only concern is do they have a long-term plan, and what is it? And communicate better.

That's fine. We can criticize the board and administration for that lack of information. But let's all please remember that the board of education has had financial problems since well before over half of these current members were elected. They have inherited a problem that has been made worse by a very bad economy, and to put it bluntly, poor financial planning and preparation by the entire state of Kansas.

Public schools have very few ways of making money:

1) They receive money per pupil from the state. 2) They charge fees for various activities 3) They offer bond issues to pay for larger, but very specific, things.

It is very hard for a district to work like an ordinary business or an ordinary household. They rely almost completely on outside sources and funding and they are at their mercy. This makes budgeting, and especially correcting previous errors in budget and finances, very, very difficult.

When they find themselves in a budget crisis, they have to reduce expenditures, which if you saw the list Mr. Dorathy presented (it's on the website, too) is considerable over the last few years.

So, without aggressively defending them for lack of communication about their long-term plan, but let's all try to understand the constraints under which they have to work. I'd advise emailing or calling and requesting their long-term financial plans, rather than just harping on them for not sharing it. They are busy people who have regular jobs and lives on top of the volunteer work they do for the district.

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

Also in none of Chic's equations does he factor into the savings # that Dorathy has provided the loss of students from parents that will more then likely pull their kids from the District if the BOE makes the decision to cut the education for kids K-5 first before eliminating other unnecessary programs.

Even if you assume that only 10% of kids leave then you are looking at almost of a quarter of that savings wiped out. About $500k over the next 5 years.

Also keep in mind that in another year we will lose all the additional money from the extra weighted average we are getting from the new PC.

People are not realizing that while we might need to close the outlying schools which I'm not against, we will need to make allot more drastic cuts to the Budget. I just don't like cutting education first before we cut from other programs.

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NanCrisp 3 years, 10 months ago

The most intelligent contribution to this thread, by far.

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cntrygrl 3 years, 10 months ago

If you will notice, I said previously that "I heard", never said I had facts in had, but BLoggerboo, you must have the paperwork in hand that says my statement "holds zero water.Otherwise you would be careful about making such statements too.

So do you or do you not have in hand, actual paper stating such.

Just asking!!

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Bloggerboo 3 years, 10 months ago

Yes, I do. It is called Kansas state law. School districts are entitled to close schools when they see fit, for financial or other reasons, so long as they go through the proper procedures. Any handshake or verbal commitment from the past has no power or authority at all. If, as you say, there is a document, an actual written contract, my guess is that it's age would be very important. Anything done 25 years ago, or longer, could not have foreseen the financial circumstances of today and would likely not hold up in any court of law.

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

Unless the Board made it a Policy then yes they can be sued and would easily blow through any savings they would get in legal fees defending the lawsuit.

Believe me I have seen Districts sued into Bankruptcy for something they agreed to in writing and set down that no one would expect them to be held too years later, but it can be if someone wants too.

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Bloggerboo 3 years, 10 months ago

Talk about selfish then. Suing a school for trying to stay afloat just for about 150 students max...incredible statement.

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true_bulldog 3 years, 10 months ago

BaldwinDad. Held them too? Again, grab a clue. It's to, dude. Your (or as you would probably say, you're) education is showing through.

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

Whoop de doo True_Bulldog....I could care less about my grammar when I type on a comments section of a story...this isn't a professional paper nor is it meant to be and I'm not arguing for 150 kids Bloggerboo, I'm arguing for all 600+ in grades K-5. You seem to forget that this will affect all of them.

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cntrygrl 3 years, 10 months ago

Maybe we never should have OPENED two new schools in the first place, then we never would have been CLOSING two schools.

Just a thought here ye people who voted for this.

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

Don't focus on the problems focus on solutions.

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ksrush 3 years, 10 months ago

I rest my case.

The consolidation should be a slam dunk - but given some of the truly gifted on the school board I'm guessing 5 - 2 we consolidate. Wow 21st century. Whats next a decent City government ?

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

You are assuming that it sticks...keep in mind their will be 4 vacancies on the BOE this year if the new people elected wanted to all choose to not close the schools they could overturn that vote.

Also consolidation is not a slam dunk since I still don't see where it makes financial sense to cut the Education of the youngest kids and fire teachers before we eliminate all other unnecessary school programs from the budget.

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true_bulldog 3 years, 10 months ago

"Their" will be 4 vacancies? Maybe you mean there.

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ksrush 3 years, 10 months ago

Its obvious you dont get it. Those kids are not being denied education by any means. The school district is consolidating , why is that so hard to grasp? If the money was here I could care less if those schools were open or not but the reality is there is no money for the school district. If you were on unemployment would you keep your thirty thousand dollar car that has a high dollar payment every month or get something within your means that still gets you where you need to go ? The school dist is on unemployment and we're paying on 2 schools K - 5

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BaldwinDad 3 years, 10 months ago

I do get it Ksrush, what I don't get is the first thing that the Administration is choosing to cut is Education, which is their sole responsibility.

As I have said repeatedly, there is no savings in closing the schools. The real cost cutting is coming from firing teachers and raising class sizes for the earliest grades and those most in need of teacher interaction. The grades K-5 are the time when the foundation of education is set for our kids. So by cutting their first you are undermining kid’s education for years to come.

My suggestion would be to eliminate any and all unnecessary items from the Budget first. This includes Administration, then Extra Circular, then Education. Instead what we have here is the Administration jumping on a Hot Topic Issue that is clouded with miss information to try and get around making the tough decisions that need to be made.

I could use your analogy Ksrush, the school board is not eliminating the $30k pricey car first they are instead choosing to not buy gas for the car, the pricey car being administrative positions and extra circular activities.

Also before Bloggerboo or someone else says I don’t value sports in school, I do value them but not as much as I value basic education. The sports programs can be funded by the boosters, or by the parents themselves. We have an excellent resource in the BCRC, but there really is no other option for kids to get a high quality education. Which last I checked is what we are actually paying for with the high taxes we pay.

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LAGNAFinaCJ 3 years, 10 months ago

I was just using the 4 new kids in the 3 classes as an example......... Meaning there is NO WAY to tell of the growth, 4 kids in a year, or 25 kids.......

THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING BLOGGER........

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